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	<title>Comments on: On Quality in Catholic Music</title>
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	<link>http://musicforsunday.com/2010/on-quality-in-catholic-music</link>
	<description>Lectionary based music suggestions, resources and ideas for church musicians and choir directors of all denominations, and thoughts on Catholic liturgy and spirituality.</description>
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		<title>By: Charles in CenCA</title>
		<link>http://musicforsunday.com/2010/on-quality-in-catholic-music/comment-page-1#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles in CenCA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 19:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musicforsunday.com/?p=123#comment-59</guid>
		<description>Adam, this is a refreshing site, and I&#039;ve added it to fav&#039;s as well.
Your sensibilities are spot on here and elsewhere.
I, being the quibbler and devil&#039;s advocate, would take you to task regarding your banishment of synthesis-based instruments at Mass. Your rationale of &quot;nothing artificial at Mass&quot; is admirable, but in comprehensive praxis, unreasonable. I&#039;m not going to bullet point my counter argument, gotta teach in a few, but, there is only one truly non-artificial instrument that is commonly upheld as the principal &quot;tool&quot; for sung worship: the human voice. Period.
At a conceptual level, the first billows powered organ was a synthetic imitation of the human voice. And because of the mechanics of piped organs, they&#039;ve evolved beyond that imitation in order to imitate other types of instruments as well. You can finish the dialectic, I&#039;m sure.
Waves of sound &quot;disturb&quot; silence at frequencies, common to all things that can vibrate. So, to me, the tool of synthesis in the hands of a master of its craft, can be practically (and theoretically) just as valid as that of a great organ and organist. And, I do still recognize the heirarchy of the church pipe organ as the ideal. But a wholesale dismissal of synthesis as an &quot;artifice&quot; seems illogical to me. YMMV</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam, this is a refreshing site, and I&#8217;ve added it to fav&#8217;s as well.<br />
Your sensibilities are spot on here and elsewhere.<br />
I, being the quibbler and devil&#8217;s advocate, would take you to task regarding your banishment of synthesis-based instruments at Mass. Your rationale of &#8220;nothing artificial at Mass&#8221; is admirable, but in comprehensive praxis, unreasonable. I&#8217;m not going to bullet point my counter argument, gotta teach in a few, but, there is only one truly non-artificial instrument that is commonly upheld as the principal &#8220;tool&#8221; for sung worship: the human voice. Period.<br />
At a conceptual level, the first billows powered organ was a synthetic imitation of the human voice. And because of the mechanics of piped organs, they&#8217;ve evolved beyond that imitation in order to imitate other types of instruments as well. You can finish the dialectic, I&#8217;m sure.<br />
Waves of sound &#8220;disturb&#8221; silence at frequencies, common to all things that can vibrate. So, to me, the tool of synthesis in the hands of a master of its craft, can be practically (and theoretically) just as valid as that of a great organ and organist. And, I do still recognize the heirarchy of the church pipe organ as the ideal. But a wholesale dismissal of synthesis as an &#8220;artifice&#8221; seems illogical to me. YMMV</p>
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		<title>By: Mark M.</title>
		<link>http://musicforsunday.com/2010/on-quality-in-catholic-music/comment-page-1#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musicforsunday.com/?p=123#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Adam, I loved your post here... excellent points, all.  Thanks for giving us the &quot;heads up&quot; over at the NLM.  I&#039;ve now bookmarked your blog, and am looking forward to reading it regularly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam, I loved your post here&#8230; excellent points, all.  Thanks for giving us the &#8220;heads up&#8221; over at the NLM.  I&#8217;ve now bookmarked your blog, and am looking forward to reading it regularly!</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://musicforsunday.com/2010/on-quality-in-catholic-music/comment-page-1#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 05:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musicforsunday.com/?p=123#comment-12</guid>
		<description>JW- I see your point about stylistic unity, but I have to respectfully disagree. Artistic unity doesn&#039;t require everything being in the same style.

As with every other good idea, though, execution is the main thing. I&#039;ve been at Masses with a multiplicity of styles that  were unified and sacred and wonderful. I&#039;ve been at others that felt like a (as my grandfather used to say of his parish) &quot;like a three ring circus with two rings broken.&quot;

Of course- all of my suggestions concerning proper training  and vetting of liturgical musicians would go a long way toward getting execution right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JW- I see your point about stylistic unity, but I have to respectfully disagree. Artistic unity doesn&#8217;t require everything being in the same style.</p>
<p>As with every other good idea, though, execution is the main thing. I&#8217;ve been at Masses with a multiplicity of styles that  were unified and sacred and wonderful. I&#8217;ve been at others that felt like a (as my grandfather used to say of his parish) &#8220;like a three ring circus with two rings broken.&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course- all of my suggestions concerning proper training  and vetting of liturgical musicians would go a long way toward getting execution right.</p>
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		<title>By: JW</title>
		<link>http://musicforsunday.com/2010/on-quality-in-catholic-music/comment-page-1#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>JW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 03:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musicforsunday.com/?p=123#comment-11</guid>
		<description>I dislike the eclectic approach simply because I think the Mass should feel unified when it is celebrated. Constant changes in musical styles within the same Mass would distract. The Mass I was confirmed at took the eclectic approach. Every verse of every hymn was in a different language, and different cultural styles of music were used for every piece of music. I found it very off-putting and couldn&#039;t sing anything.

For major feast days, multi-lingual gatherings, and confirmations, I would say to always go the more traditional route and use Latin chant. That&#039;s sort of what I meant by chant being the &quot;default.&quot; Vatican II stipulated that we all know how to participate in Latin, and there&#039;s nothing wrong with following the council&#039;s request that chant be given pride of place at times.

In my neck of the woods, having different styles of music at different Masses is completely out of the norm. It&#039;s more common for the same music to be used at every Mass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dislike the eclectic approach simply because I think the Mass should feel unified when it is celebrated. Constant changes in musical styles within the same Mass would distract. The Mass I was confirmed at took the eclectic approach. Every verse of every hymn was in a different language, and different cultural styles of music were used for every piece of music. I found it very off-putting and couldn&#8217;t sing anything.</p>
<p>For major feast days, multi-lingual gatherings, and confirmations, I would say to always go the more traditional route and use Latin chant. That&#8217;s sort of what I meant by chant being the &#8220;default.&#8221; Vatican II stipulated that we all know how to participate in Latin, and there&#8217;s nothing wrong with following the council&#8217;s request that chant be given pride of place at times.</p>
<p>In my neck of the woods, having different styles of music at different Masses is completely out of the norm. It&#8217;s more common for the same music to be used at every Mass.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://musicforsunday.com/2010/on-quality-in-catholic-music/comment-page-1#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musicforsunday.com/?p=123#comment-10</guid>
		<description>No problem with the meander into style considerations.

I have mixed feelings about eclecticism vs. &quot;different Masses.&quot; A lot parishes have this schedule:
4pm Saturday - Boring, badly played organ music
7am Sunday - short, no music at all
8am - High Mass, or something like it- increasingly in Latin EF
1030 - Folk Mass or &quot;Family Mass&quot;
1200 - Spanish Mass (or polish, german, phillipino, whatever)
6pm - Life Teen / Youth Choir

This has the benefit of &quot;pleasing everyone,&quot; but it also divides the community into little subcultures who rarely see each other. Plus- what music do you do on Feast Days when everyone is together?

A more eclectic approach, while a bit jarring at first, can - if done well- get everyone on the same page together, providing a shared repertoire of music everyone in a parish knows. Also, you can start to hear and understand how the &quot;Hermeneutic of Continuity&quot; becomes a real live experience and not a dry philosophical discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problem with the meander into style considerations.</p>
<p>I have mixed feelings about eclecticism vs. &#8220;different Masses.&#8221; A lot parishes have this schedule:<br />
4pm Saturday &#8211; Boring, badly played organ music<br />
7am Sunday &#8211; short, no music at all<br />
8am &#8211; High Mass, or something like it- increasingly in Latin EF<br />
1030 &#8211; Folk Mass or &#8220;Family Mass&#8221;<br />
1200 &#8211; Spanish Mass (or polish, german, phillipino, whatever)<br />
6pm &#8211; Life Teen / Youth Choir</p>
<p>This has the benefit of &#8220;pleasing everyone,&#8221; but it also divides the community into little subcultures who rarely see each other. Plus- what music do you do on Feast Days when everyone is together?</p>
<p>A more eclectic approach, while a bit jarring at first, can &#8211; if done well- get everyone on the same page together, providing a shared repertoire of music everyone in a parish knows. Also, you can start to hear and understand how the &#8220;Hermeneutic of Continuity&#8221; becomes a real live experience and not a dry philosophical discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Rae</title>
		<link>http://musicforsunday.com/2010/on-quality-in-catholic-music/comment-page-1#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Rae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musicforsunday.com/?p=123#comment-9</guid>
		<description>&quot;Badly performed Palestrina is not much worthier than badly performed Carey Landry.&quot; Hear, hear! 

I am not one of those called to obsess over liturgy, but I greatly appreciate those who can do so with balance. And I would love to see your suggestions were implemented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Badly performed Palestrina is not much worthier than badly performed Carey Landry.&#8221; Hear, hear! </p>
<p>I am not one of those called to obsess over liturgy, but I greatly appreciate those who can do so with balance. And I would love to see your suggestions were implemented.</p>
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		<title>By: JW</title>
		<link>http://musicforsunday.com/2010/on-quality-in-catholic-music/comment-page-1#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>JW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musicforsunday.com/?p=123#comment-8</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure I consider myself a traditionalist/conservative, though my preference is for Latin Masses and traditional liturgy...

I have no problem with well-done contemporary music. I personally don&#039;t care for it, but have met a lot of people for whom this music is very moving. My only real problem with it is that it has completely shoved traditional music so far out of the way that one could live their entire life as a practicing Catholic and never once hear any of it. I should know, I was 20 when I first heard a Greek Kyrie, and have never heard Latin at the Novus Ordo without first spending a lot of effort to seek it out.

IMO, a small repertoire of Latin chant (like in that Jubilate Deo book) and sung liturgy with the Mass propers should be the default for the principal Mass on Sundays and major Holydays. This what children should be taught as part of CCD. Everyone should have to *learn* to participate in a Novus Ordo High Mass, even if they end up liking folk Masses better. Doing so might give Catholics a sense of tradition and continuity they currently don&#039;t have, and stress the universal nature of our wonderful faith.  A Latin setting (even the much maligned Missa De Angelis) should be what tugs on a Catholic&#039;s heart strings whenever it is played rather than the Mass of Creation, or any other vernacular setting, regardless of actual personal musical preference.

I don&#039;t think we should have eclectic Masses (a rock song followed by Palestrina, followed by a folk tune, etc), but I see no reason why there can&#039;t be separate Masses in a variety of styles with the traditional one having true pride of place as a sort of default that everyone can still look back to and participate in.

BTW, sorry if my post was too much about musical style as opposed to quality. I realize that quality was what your post was mostly getting at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure I consider myself a traditionalist/conservative, though my preference is for Latin Masses and traditional liturgy&#8230;</p>
<p>I have no problem with well-done contemporary music. I personally don&#8217;t care for it, but have met a lot of people for whom this music is very moving. My only real problem with it is that it has completely shoved traditional music so far out of the way that one could live their entire life as a practicing Catholic and never once hear any of it. I should know, I was 20 when I first heard a Greek Kyrie, and have never heard Latin at the Novus Ordo without first spending a lot of effort to seek it out.</p>
<p>IMO, a small repertoire of Latin chant (like in that Jubilate Deo book) and sung liturgy with the Mass propers should be the default for the principal Mass on Sundays and major Holydays. This what children should be taught as part of CCD. Everyone should have to *learn* to participate in a Novus Ordo High Mass, even if they end up liking folk Masses better. Doing so might give Catholics a sense of tradition and continuity they currently don&#8217;t have, and stress the universal nature of our wonderful faith.  A Latin setting (even the much maligned Missa De Angelis) should be what tugs on a Catholic&#8217;s heart strings whenever it is played rather than the Mass of Creation, or any other vernacular setting, regardless of actual personal musical preference.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we should have eclectic Masses (a rock song followed by Palestrina, followed by a folk tune, etc), but I see no reason why there can&#8217;t be separate Masses in a variety of styles with the traditional one having true pride of place as a sort of default that everyone can still look back to and participate in.</p>
<p>BTW, sorry if my post was too much about musical style as opposed to quality. I realize that quality was what your post was mostly getting at.</p>
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		<title>By: don roy</title>
		<link>http://musicforsunday.com/2010/on-quality-in-catholic-music/comment-page-1#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>don roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://musicforsunday.com/?p=123#comment-7</guid>
		<description>wonderful article!
i first saw your responses over at nlm and your thoughtful comments are very refreshing. while more of a traditionalist then you are, i nontheless see a role for haugan/haas and having a choir that sings this stuff really really well,ive come to appreciate some of it. (and ive even seen reverent guitar playing.)
its time to move beyond the hurtful liturgy wars and come together. your article is a wonderful first step. i hope my side can move beyond its social and political conservatism and meet you half way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wonderful article!<br />
i first saw your responses over at nlm and your thoughtful comments are very refreshing. while more of a traditionalist then you are, i nontheless see a role for haugan/haas and having a choir that sings this stuff really really well,ive come to appreciate some of it. (and ive even seen reverent guitar playing.)<br />
its time to move beyond the hurtful liturgy wars and come together. your article is a wonderful first step. i hope my side can move beyond its social and political conservatism and meet you half way.</p>
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